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Episode #573 - Rocking a Solo Retirement: Meet Nick, Meet Laura

Roger: The show is a proud member of the retirement podcast network. 

“Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, wow, what a ride.”

-Hunter S. Thompson.

Welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have a confidence because you are doing the work to really lean in and rock it. 

Hunter S. Thompson, the gentleman that stated those words, was a rebel and an outcast in many ways. But that quote encapsulates what rocking retirement is, to be able to get to the end of life and look back and say, wow, what a ride. Now, there are many things about Hunter S. Thompson, let's be honest here, that I would not want to emulate but in rocking retirement, in the purpose of retirement planning, I think it gets rocking retirement really well.

Now let's talk a little bit about what do we mean by wow, what a ride? What does that mean? 

Well, the cool thing here is you get to decide what that means to you. You decide what your ride is. That could be being a great grandparent. Being a mentor, being a volunteer, being a cyclist, being a great spouse or a friend. It could be changing the world in a bigger way. It doesn't matter. There's no wrong or right answer here. There's only one answer that is true to yourself of what that ride is. And that's part of the great exploration that we all get to do in this life. And retirement's a great time to be able to do that. You have some time freedom. Once you have identified that or feel the pull of something and you go exploring, you're not going to figure this out in the afternoon. Then go all in on your life. Don't play small ball, as they say. Go all in on your life.

That's the spirit of Agile Retirement Management in the process. That's the spirit of the show. We have a lot of changes coming with the show that I think are going to focus on that in a healthy way and still deal with the retirement planning, which is the part that is the vehicle to give us that confidence to go all in. So, the retirement planning's critical now.

Today we are starting our live case studies because we have two for the price of one today and this month, which is we're going to talk to Laura and Nick and you're going to meet them and hear from them, um, over the next four weeks as they tell their story. They're both on the precipice of retirement. They're in their late 50s, they are both single, both have never been married. They live on opposite sides of the country and have taken different paths to get to where they are and we're going to explore how do you rock retirement as a single person? 

Now you may say, hey, Roger, I don’t know if I'm going to listen to this. I am not single. I've been married 35 years. That's true. But you know what? I will place a bet right now that one of you, just like me or Shauna, is going to be single in retirement. God willing. It's not way until the end of it, but it could be sooner than you think. One thing that Laura and Nick have going for themselves that you and I, if you've been married for a long time, don't have, is the skills to be alone and not be lonely and to manage in that environment. So, I think this applies to everybody. These are universal things. 

Today we're going to talk to Laura and Nick and hear about who they are, what their story is and what their top 10 values are. As part of that, we're going to share a worksheet in our 6-Shot Saturday email, which you can sign up for at rogerwhitney.com or sixshotsaturday.com so you can revisit or establish your top 10 values. We'll share that in our 6-Shot Saturday email. 

Then next week we'll talk about their goals and then their resources and then their views of aging as an independent person related to all this stuff. We are going to have a live event on January 30th with Laura where we're going to go through what her vision is. We're going to look at whether it's feasible and ways to start making it resilient in a live results show with Laura like we've done in the past. That is going to be Thursday, January 30th at 7:00pm Central. 

Then on Monday we're going to do the same thing with Nick, on February 3rd. If you want to attend those live and be able to ask questions and share your perspective, go to livewithroger.com and register. 

In addition to that, one last thing and we'll get moving and meet Laura. I'm excited. Is on the 30th of January, we are opening up enrollment to the Rock Retirement Club, our online community that gives you everything you need to build your plan of record to have clarity on what is possible and start to act on that. It's your platform to be able to do that and have adult conversations about it. On February 1st, we're going to have an open house dedicated to that specifically, that way you can see whether it's a fit for you. You can sign up for that livewithroger.com.

All right, got that out of the way.

 Now let's have our first conversation and meet Laura. 

LAURA’S STORY

Laura, nice to meet you.

Laura: Good to meet you, Roger.

Roger: We really just met for the first time a minute ago.

Laura: Yes, we did.

Roger: So, let's start with Laura's story. So how old are you?

Laura: I am currently 59.

Roger: You're 59. Okay. And are you working still?

Laura: I am still working, hoping to not be working sometime soon.

Roger: Okay. So what industry are you in?

Laura: I am in transportation and distribution.

Roger: Okay. Logistics.

Laura: Transportation logistics, yes.

Roger: You mentioned that you hope to not be working soon. What's your target retirement date? If you're 59 now, I would say.

Laura: It’d be a great 60th birthday present to me sometime within the next 12 months.

Roger: Okay. So, we're going to shoot for that as ideal. We're going to get to the goals next week. Have you've always been in transportation.

Laura: Pretty much, yes, actually, uh, yeah, a little bit, little variations here and there, but, but, uh, but always in management, really in transportation.

Roger: Okay.

Laura: And distribution. Yes.

Roger: And you are not married?

Laura: I'm not married.

Roger: Have you ever been married?

Laura: I have never been married.

Roger: Okay. No children?

Laura: No, um, children other than my four legged dogs.

Roger: What are your dog’s names?

Laura: Um, I have Josie and Miley.

Roger: And what kind of dogs are they?

Laura: They're both from the pound. One's a pit bull mix and one's a little dachshund terrier mix.

Roger: Okay. Okay. And they like each other pretty well?

Laura: Oh, they love each other. They're sleeping together right now.

Roger: I sort of feel I'm looking at Sherlock over there sleeping on the couch. Uh, and I always thought sleep, like when he was a pup, we had two other dogs because he was a transition dog. So, uh, I wonder if he's lonely now that it's just him.

Laura: Probably loves all the attention.

Roger: He definitely does. Give me like the five minute Laura story. Tell me about this is your life.

Laura: This is my life. Just, you know, I thought I was doing the right thing. Went to school, got a bachelor's, and then I was going to go into the sociology kind uh, of route and realized that I Didn't pay much. So I went back to school, got my master's, stuck with the uh, distribution and stayed with the company for 15 years that I got through college with. And then I decided that it was going to eat me alive or I was going to die of a heart attack if I stayed there and started making some moves and then moved to another company.

Roger: What was the pressure that made you say, oh, this is going to. Is it just the pace of work or.

Laura: The pace of work is extremely demanding, you know, kind of job. It's package delivery. So, Christmases are nonexistent. They would say full time is all the time, part time is full time, full time is all the time. So, it was a very demanding job and I just couldn't see doing it for another 15 years.

Roger: Now. How did you feel? Brave enough to pivot.

Laura: There was someone that had worked there and she had gone to another company and they had a four day work week. So, I thought, wow, that sounds great. I took the leap.

Roger: That's where you've been since?

Laura: No, actually I was there for four years but the commute was kind of long. I live in California and traffic in California is unique. It was long, unpredictable. I ended up going to another company also in distribution and stayed there 11 years and then went from there. I decided I wanted to go to a small company and I figured that it was going to be my last stop so I wanted to do something a little smaller, family owned, just really friendly place, great place to work. That's where I've been ever since. So, I've been there eight years now.

Roger: what is your motivation to want to retire?

Laura: Motivation is really because I want to have my own time. It's a little difficult right now because I work full time, I live in California, still commute, and still have a little bit of traffic, uh, so the days are long. And then I'm also spending quite a bit of time taking care of my mother who was 87. And that doesn't leave a lot of time for me. So, I'm thinking, okay, I think I've done everything right. I've put into my 401k my whole life. You know, maybe it's going to pay off. So that's more my motivation. It isn't so much that I don't want to work. In fact I look at other jobs and think, wow, this would be cool to work there. But it's more of uh, wanting some.

Roger: More time do you think that the time of dealing with your mother puts extra pressure on not having enough time for yourself?

Laura: Absolutely. Absolutely. For a while there, I spent three or four days a week with her, so I was neglecting my own life and my own home, and that's a little tough.

Roger: Yeah. Now, do you have family, local?

Laura: I do. I do. And, uh, we've gotten into a better system now, so they are contributing a little more. And, um, we're doing a lot better. So now I'm down to two days, which is much better and getting things done. My dogs are happy with that because I can walk them every day. And, uh, but it's still, you know, you get to the point where you wonder, you know, at what point do. Is this time gonna be just mine? And have I done enough to make it just my time so I can get up, go for a hike, go biking, do. Do whatever I want when I want and be more relaxed when I'm spending time doing other things.

Roger: They always say a happy dog is a tired dog.

Laura: Yes.

Roger: A lot less destructive, too.

So, I want to ask you a question, and this is actually just personal curiosity. So, I'm 57, you're 59. Got married right out of college. I wasn’t planning on it. It just sorts of happened. Other than a brief time before I got married, I have never lived alone.

Laura: Wow.

Roger: And I don't know whether you've always lived alone and the journey on a personal end of it, but from a social standpoint, what is it like living alone? I guess my question, because I've never done it.

Laura: Interesting. That's an interesting question. I haven't always lived alone. You know, college, you have roommates and, you know, this and that. But personally, I love it. You know, I can do what I want, when I want. I don't have to check in with anyone or, you know, go to bed if I want to, early or late, or, you know, stay up all night. I have a gym at my house so I can work out when I want. And personally, uh, I love it. But I do have to consciously make efforts to be social. And recently, uh, I found, like, meetup groups, hiking groups, and that's been really great. Yeah.

Roger: I was going to say, have you. Have you thought about it? You have all of this free time. Obviously, it'll give you some time with your mother, but you have a lot of social networks within work, even if you're moving really fast. What is it like when you don't have that built in? Socialization, for lack of a better term.

Laura: I Have thought about it. I've spoken to, you know, a few people who've retired recently and, and I think you have to make a conscious effort to work on that. I do want to do volunteer work. I love animals and I'm planning to volunteer at the shelters, whether it's just walking dogs or what have you. But I do realize you have to make a conscious effort to be social. I'm a bit introverted, so I'm okay with not being as social as some other people need. And, um, at work, even though there are people there and you're having conversations, it's not an environment. We're having long winded conversations and sharing all kinds of stories or anything.

Roger: Yeah, you're problem solving. You're managing the system.

Laura: Exactly.

Roger: You mentioned a few hobbies. You said hiking. What are some of the things that bring you joy hobby wise?

Laura: Hiking. Just finding a new trail and getting out there with the dogs if possible. The little one can't really make those trails, so sometimes she, you know, needs to stay behind.

Laura: I love to road bike. However, I haven't been as much because I don't have the time. I do have a peloton and I'm on that every day.

Roger: Don’t say that with, with like discuss. It's like roads, road cyclists shouldn't have peloton. I have a peloton.

Laura: Well, I said that because I'm like, oh, should I peloton or not? I mean, I think it's an awesome piece of equipment. Um, helped me tremendously through COVID. It was just a godsend. And with limited time, I can get on there and crank out, you know, 30 minute ride. I don't have to get to a trail, you know, get the bike out of the car and you know, logistically.

Roger: It makes it hard and you end up not being outside as much. But it makes it so much easier. Right, right.

Laura: I could see three days a week getting on the trail for three hours.

Roger: On a road trail you're referring to?

Laura: Yeah. On the road trail. Yes, yes. Not on, not on the peloton, but on the.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura: Right down to the beach and back.

Roger: Yeah, I have a peloton row too, which I use much more than the bike.

Laura: I heard it's nice, but it's full body.

Roger: What else should I know about Laura? As we're thinking about building a record plan so you can maybe hit the 60th birthday target, what else should I know about you.

Laura: That's a good question. I mentioned I'm a little introverted. I don't need to do huge travel. I have, you know, friends that have retired, and they're doing these, you know, $20,000 trips and stuff like that. That's just not me. I loved your podcast. I think it was two weeks ago about, like blocking out the noise, because I think that's one of the first things people say, oh, you're going to travel? Are you going to retire? You want to travel? I've traveled, and I'm not saying I don't want to, but it's not. It's not everything for me. So, I am pretty thrifty or frugal.

Roger: Yeah, well, there are positive spins and negative spins, depending on which word you use.

Laura: Yes.

Roger: Give me an example of Laura being frugal.

Laura: You know, honestly, I buy everything I want when I want it, but I guess my desires aren't as big as others, so that I've always lived within my means. I have zero debt. My house is now paid off, the car is paid off. I have two Wave Runners paid off. I just live within my means. But I guess some people might think that's frugal because you're making decisions based on what you have. Um, for me, that's just my way of living.

Roger: Well, you have a peloton. Those are not inexpensive.

Laura: True.

Roger: I bet if I asked what type of bicycle you have, it would not be inexpensive.

Laura: Correct.

Roger: Right. So, I'm thinking more about Michael Easter. You have gear, quality gear that allows you to do things that you enjoy.

Laura: Right. And I don't have to go out and buy the latest and greatest, although I do. You know, I have my specialized bike and, you know, my peloton, and anything that brings me joy, I guess you could say, yeah.

Roger: So, I asked you to do an exercise to establish your top 10 values, and I want to go over that. But before I do, I want to ask you, why do you think that is the first thing I asked you to do?

Laura: Well, I would say it is really. It makes you think. It makes you really think about what's important in life and what's important to you. So, I would think that it sets that foundation of, um, where you are and where you want to be and continue to be. By really thinking about these things, you. I think you will get a better picture of who you are to yourself. And then if you're reading it, you get a better picture of who I am and what's important to me.

Roger: Okay, so let's go over a few things. What experiences brought you the most joy? Put down hiking with your dogs.

Laura: Mhmm.

Roger: Stand up paddle boarding, road biking. Definitely sounds like the California lifestyle. Being outside in nature. So, you like to be outside?

Laura: Absolutely, yes.

Roger: What is it about outside?

Laura: You know, it's just, it's beautiful. It's the sky, the wind, it's the sun, you know, it's, it's just uh, freeing.

Roger: Okay. Like being by water sort of that way too. Right?

Laura: Exactly.

Roger: Outside is my word for next year.

Laura: Oh, nice. Okay.

Roger: Outside in Colorado. Then the second question. We'll have a link to this worksheet in our 6-Shot Saturday email. If you're hanging out listening with us us, you can grab that worksheet and revisit or establish your top 10 values.

The next question we asked was what makes you angry or frustrated? And I can't imagine this first one that you said which is traffic. I don't understand.

Laura: I know, it's farfetched on that one, I think. No, no, yeah, traffic and just wasting time and just sitting there and killing the planet at the same time. Because you're just sitting in traffic. Yeah, yeah.

Roger: Now you put cancer cuts lives short. Have you had some experience with that? Either you or people you love.

Laura: Yeah, I've had three very good friends that all have passed in their 50s. And I mean my best friend from, for 30 something years passed from cancer. My father also passed at 72 from cancer. So yeah, I think it really makes you think twice about it, okay, do I want to keep working? Do I want to do something else? Maybe, you know, that adds value a little bit more than what I'm currently doing. I'm sure I add value to someone somewhere, but it's not as deep. And yeah, cancer and losing people definitely make you reevaluate.

Roger: It’s one thing when you lose people when they're older.

Laura: Mhmm.

Roger: I mean it's still impactful. But when you lose a cohort of people that are your same age or younger that you were friends with, that have shared their aspirations and their dreams for later and seen that not materialize for them, definitely brings it home, doesn't it?

Laura: Absolutely. Absolutely. It really makes you think. I mean, life can be cut short at any time.

Roger: So, it makes you think what the hell am I doing?

Laura: Exactly. Right. Yep. Get a move on. Because if you're just going to keep working and doing the right thing, then I mean what I've always been told was the right thing, which is get up, go to work. You know, be productive, pay your bills.

Roger: You were able to delay this chat we had today because I was helping my son move. He was moving from near us to Plano, which is about 45 minutes away, and moving in with his girlfriend Mel, who I adore. She's awesome. We were sitting around after we moved whatever in. There are just some final pieces. And I'm sitting on the couch and talking to Mel, and she's talking about her career and what she wants to do, and she's not quite sure because she's in software development and did it right out of college. It's the only thing she's ever known. Trying to figure out what she wants her life to be. I was trying to explain to her, it's like, well, go try living someplace else. Well, where would I go? I don't know. Just make it up. Most decisions are two ways. Two ways. I was trying to help her think outside of this is what everybody says I'm supposed to do, or this is what everybody else is doing, right?

Laura: Yes.

Roger: I said to her, Mel, nobody knows how to do any of this. We're just making it up as we go along. You don't have to listen to anybody. That's hard, though, right? Even if you know it.

Laura: Yes, it really is. Actually. It's really hard. If you're, uh, you know, thinking you need to be responsible, you need to do what society tells you you're supposed to do, then, yeah, it can be really hard to take a leap of faith.

Roger: Just trust yourself.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely.

Roger: Well, let's talk about your top 10 values briefly. Okay. So, number one, and we did this as a highest to lowest. I actually don't know if you need to prioritize them. Number one is integrity. That's a good one to have. That's like a. Okay. You know, never that. Why did you pick that one? That's a good one to have. Right? Integrity. You put family quote unquote, including dogs. Will you always have dogs?

Laura: I think so.

Roger: Think so?

Laura: Yeah. I mean, my mom is 87. She has a dog. And I was watching her on the video the other night, and she went to go to bed, and she got out of bed and she gave the dog a kiss at the end of the bed. You know, the dog was at the end of the bed, and it was just the cutest thing. But it's. It's. They bring you joy, so why not friendship?

Roger: Even though you're an introvert, you want friendship.

Laura: Absolutely.

Roger: Fun. I think fun is just sort of a way of life.

Laura: Yes.

Roger: I was asked the other day by Tanya; I think it was. She says, I always have a lightness to me. And I'm like, well, that's by design. I never was always that way. It took me about 10 years to practice lateness. And I tell her, uh, I've worked on having a smirky smile all the time so I don't have that resting jerk face. And when I talk, I try to have a little laugh inside. And it actually has made a huge difference. Personal development. Travel. Travel to you is like. It's not traveling the world. It sounds like. What's travel to you?

Laura: I actually want to see all the U.S. you know, all the parks, all the, you know, that kind of travel. And traveling the world is good too. I've been to a few places already and it's not a necessity. If it doesn't happen, I won't die. Um, there are places I still want to go see though. I do want to go to Italy and Greece, but it's not a must do. But I think it'll happen.

Roger: Well, let me ask this. When it comes to travel. Cause this is one of those generic retirement goals, right? And we'll get to goals in a little bit. Why do you think that is? Is it because everybody else says travel or what is the drive for travel?

Laura: Not because everyone else. It would actually be to go and just kind of live in the culture to try to just see how, you know, just uh, observe how other people live and you know, you hear so much about how the US is so fast paced and then other countries are a little slower and just to sit in a cafe and you know, have a drink and watch, you know, watch, just watch things. I just, you know, I read a lot of books or listen to audiobooks and um, there's just a lot more out.

Roger: There that you want to witness.

Laura: To witness? Yes.

Roger: Then you have to give back and volunteer. You talked about that. And then learning. You're not learning, you're dying for sure.

Laura: Mhmm.

Roger: I like this exercise at the beginning, Laura. Uh, because when we talk about goals, which is what we're going to do next time, we'll use a dog metaphor. It's easy to let the tail wag the dog. And the tail being the money and taxes and all these planning things that we have to think about. It's easy to let those things wag the dog and fit our life into these other things. When Logically, your value should be what drives everything. Right. Your goals are derivatives of you living out your values. And it's a, uh, filtering mechanism to see if you're congruent or not, so you don't get too far over your skis. When we get to optimization and all.

Laura: The crazy stuff, I think that's why I had integrity first. So it's staying true to myself and what's important to me.

Roger: How do you. Okay, that's a. So that's a different kind of integrity than I interpreted.

Laura: Yes.

Roger: Being honest. So, stay integrity in terms of living, being brave enough to be yourself.

Laura: Yes. Right, Absolutely.

Roger: How do you grade yourself? How do you check yourself in that sense? Do you have a, uh, practice or a ritual to say, is this really who I am?

Laura: I do not, but that's a good question. Like, you know, how do you come up with a practice or ritual to make sure. But I don't get sucked into, you know, the noise as you guys talked about on your previous podcast. You know, I try not to. It just doesn't drive me, you know, to try to keep up with the Joneses. I guess I'm, um, just not that kind of person, so.

Roger: Okay. One book recommendation that was related to this that I'm working on, I reread about once a year. It's called Essentialism by M. Uh, what's his name? McGregor. Oh, it's called essentialism. We'll have a link in 6 Shot Saturday. I forget the gentleman's name, but he's English. Because I struggle with this too. Right. Because there's so many things you want to do and how do you know what are the most important things? And he had a framework in there of tradeoffs. And it's like any opportunity, whether it's a piece of clothing or to go do a volunteer opportunity or whatever it is, you have a system from 0 to 10, and you rate the opportunity with it from 0 to 10. And if it's a, uh, 9 or a 10, it's a hell yes. And if it's an 8 or below, you move it to a 0.

Laura: Wow.

Roger: To try to stay focused on only truly the most important things to you. That's a hard thing to do because we always want to please everybody.

Laura: Right.

Roger: Well, thank you for introducing yourself. Next week we're going to talk about your goals.

Laura: Okay, it sounds great.

NICK’S STORY

Roger: So now we have the he said in the she said, he said portion of retirement plan live, because we have a lady that's doing this as well, which is an interesting thing. I want to introduce you to Nick.

How are you doing, Nick?

Nick: I'm doing good, Roger. How are you?

Roger: Good, good. Oh, you sound serious now that we're talking on there. We, uh, were just talking beforehand and joking around.

My objective today, Nick, is to just hear the story of Nick and talk about your values. But as you begin, Begin this retirement plan live, I'd be interested in hearing why you raised your hand and what it is you want out of it.

Nick: Okay. Um, so the reason why I raised my hand was because I feel like I'm reaching the point where I want to retire and do something else with my time rather than just earn a paycheck. And it just happened that you were looking for single contestants.

Roger: As contestants, there's no prizes here. Maybe you retire, there's no prizes. No. No curtains.

Nick: Right, right. But I just, I. I realized that it was an opportunity maybe to take a look at where I stand in. In terms of being prepared to retire. And I've always thought that the previous retirement plan, live episodes, I've always learned a tremendous amount from them and the willingness that people have been to share. And I just wanted the opportunity maybe to help a, uh, single person navigate this transition.

Roger: You are single?

Nick: I am single. Never married, and no children. Life just took me down a path where it just never was the right place at the right time. It wasn't that. That either of those things weren't, um, desired. Um, it just never happened for me. And. And that's okay, too. We all have a different path, and.

Roger: There’s still a lot of life left, so it's not. So, you're still open to whatever makes sense, but it just never happened.

Nick: Exactly. And I am blessed with, uh, ten nieces and nephews who really provide me with a lot of parenting, like, opportunities with the. With the ability to send them home when I'm finished.

Roger: Yeah, it's like being a grandparent where you get to just send them off.

So how old are you, Nick?

Nick: I'm 57. Just this month.

Roger: All right, all right. So, we're about the same age for a month or so. So you're 57, you live on the east coast. We'll just say you work in government.

Nick: I do work in government.

Roger: Tell me a little bit about your life. So, if this was a, ah, this is your life in three or four or five minutes and give me your story.

Nick: So, I was born and raised in the upper Midwest. When I graduated from high school, I elected to join the military service in the reserve component. While I was going to college part time. I was also working a job full time. At a certain point, I just became frustrated with the working all the time to go to school part time. And I really didn't feel it. Feel like I had a destination in college at the time. The opportunity was presented to go on active duty in my military service, and I went, well, there's the GI Bill. Maybe I could go do that for four years and come back with the GI Bill and go back to college. Suffice it to say, 22 years later, I retired from that military service. I was a budget analyst for my career in the military, mainly working with military budgets. At the end of my time in the military, I landed on the east coast and had a, uh, really great opportunity to transition into the civil service of, um, the federal government doing basically the exact same thing. Budget analyst.

Roger: Does it still work where if you do that, your service years just roll over? It used to be that way, so.

Nick: So, it really depends, Roger, on, um, what grade and how many years of service you had in the military and what grade you have in the civil service. For some people, it makes total sense to buy your time. For other people, it makes sense for them to maintain their military retirement separate from a civil service retirement. So, for me, it made more sense for me to buy my time. Okay, so my military retirement check will go away when I retire, but it will be replaced by a larger civil service retirement check.

Roger: Sorry to derail you there, but it just came to mind.

Nick: No, no, that's okay. I transitioned out of the military in 2010, and I've been working as a civil servant since 2011. Um, I have to admit, after 35 years of, um, of dealing with the federal budget process, I've grown a little weary. I hate to put it like that, but I've grown a little weary. It doesn't spark as much joy for me as it used to. And a lot of that is, of course, tied to the politics in our federal government. Right. Wrong or indifferent, it is what it is. I would just like to disengage from the federal budget process as an employee and just watch it as a civilian, like, uh, the rest of America generally does. And I guess that's me in a nutshell. Yeah.

Roger: Just so you know that I've performed in this rodeo for years, and I'm tired of this rodeo is very normal even in the private sector.

Nick: Right, right.

Roger: You’ve mastered what you've been able to master. You recognize the constraints of the structure, and there's nothing else to learn. For you personally?

Nick: Exactly. That's kind of how I feel. I feel like I've gotten as far as I can go on this path, uh, and I'm open to exploring the next path.

Roger: Then at parties, rather than be the recipient of everything that's wrong with what you do, you can be the person on the sidelines talking about how it's all messed up.

Nick: Exactly. I often am the person who hears about how it is they can't do their jobs. I'm like, well, it's really not me who made that decision, but it will. It will be nice to be on the outside of it looking in. I have to admit, I grown tired of being on the inside looking out.

Roger: So that is part of what you've recognized of this season in my life should end. It's in the autumn or the fall. I think that's good to recognize. Do you struggle with that? Like, if you think of a change of seasons, it sort of gets a hot day and a cold day. Do you go back and forth or Is it pretty much no, this is the direction I need to go.

Nick: It's mainly. I feel like this is the direction I need to head in. Yeah. I mean, every once in a while, there will be a little glimmer of light that things are looking normal again. And then it quickly gets snuffed out. And then I kind of like, oh, uh, it's just going to be exactly like it was the last time and the time before. And so I, I am mainly ready to be finished and uh, moving on a new path.

Roger: I want to ask a question. I had lunch with a friend, client that I've known for years and I learned something very interesting about him. He connected some dots when he was young. For him it was. He was very athletically motivated and he was really slow. Then he went on this little program in the summer for himself just internally of working to get faster and in the. Then when he came out for what I think was soccer, he suddenly was a lot faster. He connected the dots between something that he had some control over to a result. That has been a thread that has guided his life a little bit with those connecting dots. It doesn't have to be related to that, but I'm just curious, when you look back when you were younger, are there any moments in your life or experiences that are connected to some dots that have been a thread in your life.

Nick: Well, there has been. I was, I, as I said, you know, I. I was struggling to figure out what I was going to do in college and, and when I went in the army, I discovered my love for numbers. Um, as a budget analyst and understanding how the federal government gets from A to B to C to D, I always, I always enjoyed how we process our information, how we get to where we're going. And I found that in my own life, I'm very process oriented, if that makes sense. I think that comes with working with numbers. I would like to know what the next step in my process is. I've always been process oriented. The part that I enjoy the best is the result, not necessarily the work giving the final result, if that makes any sense.

Roger: Like, you suffer in training to get the result right. How is that? Is that love? Let me ask this way. Is that love going to represent itself when you are not working? That love of numbers and process.

Nick: I believe the process will definitely will. I'm very interested in no longer working for a paycheck, if that's a possibility. I would rather donate myself and my time to causes that I care about. And of course, once again, there's going to be processes and procedures that are entailed in a volunteering opportunity. And I'm hoping to transition to that kind of process and procedure, uh, as opposed to a directed, kind of mandated calendar.

Roger: What about a paycheck that changes things?

Nick: That's a good question. Of course, we always associate our value as somehow, we've come to, uh, associate our value as a person as to the paycheck that we get. And I've reached the point where I'm hoping that I no longer have to value my time in dollars and cents, but rather in good work for free. I hope that's answering the question.

Roger: There’s no wrong answer. I asked my daughter about this because she does art, she does embroider, and just. She's like an. A grandmother crafts lady, but 27. I asked her about this because she'll have friends that will ask her to do an embroidery or something. I think she had a good answer. There's no wrong answer. But I liked her answer. They want to pay her for it, and she never wants to receive money for it. I asked her why, because you could have a little, you know, I'm the entrepreneur, you could have a little side hustle here. She says, one, I love doing it. Two, I love that they love it. Three, if they paid me now, I'd have a deadline. I would have more of an obligation to them. I didn't like this, the way this was done, and I paid you money for it so you can fix it. So, it sorts of put all of that pressure on something that actually just brings your joy.

Nick: That sounds about where I feel like I'm heading. You know, I. The paycheck comes with deadlines and requirements, whereas volunteering comes with, first of all the time, freedom to say, okay, I'm going to take a week off. Which is harder when you're employed. And it also gives you the ability to pick and choose the things that you want to spend your time on rather than. There are several processes in my current job that literally the process makes me miserable.

Roger: Okay, that makes sense too. Yeah, that makes sense.

Nick: I don't want to be in that feedback loop m anymore of dreading the processes that I don't enjoy anymore.

Roger: That makes sense. So, let's go to your values. Have you ever done an exercise like that before?

Nick: I've done something similar with the, like, um, the leadership personality tests that you see out there.

Roger: Okay.

Nick: It seems to me I did one as I was progressing through the military ranks at some point. And then there was a civil service government course that I took on emerging leaders that also had kind of a personality.

Roger: They love to assess people. Corporates.

Nick: Yeah, yeah. So, I've done something similar. Not exactly like what you provided.

Roger: Okay, so the first question. We have this worksheet that will be available in 6-Shot Saturday. So, if you're signed up for that, you can get a link to download the PDF. If not, you can go to rogerwhitney.com and sign up for that.

First question was what experiences bring you the most joy? We don't have to go through this in detail, but I want to go to a sentence where you said, travel is a hunger that I need to feed. It's sentenced. Why?

Nick: Yeah, one of the things I've enjoyed about my military service and probably was a big part of the reason why I stayed with it beyond, uh, an initial four years to get a GI Bill and then kind of the current position I'm serving in as a civil servant is they offered great travel opportunities as part of the job. I found it very quickly.

My first assignment overseas was in South Korea and I just found myself absolutely fascinated with the culture and the sights and the sounds. And it's probably, like I said, what kept me in the military for 22 years. I had an opportunity to live overseas on four different, four different occasions. My current job provides me with the opportunity to travel to the region that I manage for my current job. I enjoyed that. And I can't see myself settling down and not traveling anymore. In retirement. It would be important that I could take a couple trips a year to go see the sights and sounds. I've seen somewhere over 35 countries, some of them not enough that I wouldn't have to go back and see some more of them, but there's an additional 150 some countries out there in the world. Not necessarily do I want to see all of them, but there's a lot of them I'm interested in going and tasting the flavor of their culture and uh, the way they live. I've just really enjoyed that part of travel.

Roger: I’ve been starting, unintentionally, an informal survey around why is travel always one of the top goals in retirement? Because it just, it's almost stereotypical. You're retired, you go travel and you mention the sights and the sounds, but what is the driver of wanting to taste this sight and sounds and see different places for you?

Nick: I think it's just I'm not one of those people who goes someplace and does the hop on, hop off and you know, I'll get on it when I first get there for one trip around and get the lay of the land, kind of figure out what's north and south and east and west. And then, uh, I want to be on my own on, on my, you know, moving around on my feet, walking through the neighborhoods. I appreciate the fact that humanity across the world lives in such a variety of ways, has such diverse beliefs and understandings, and I want to continue to experience that.

Roger: What does that do for you though?

Nick: Oh, planning a trip and, taking the trip and then talking about the trip with friends and family when I come back, it just gives me a lot of joy. I, it's almost like I said, it's a hunger. I want to do it. I want to experience other things. I mean, not that there's anything wrong with where I live right now, but I understand in my mind that it's just such a small part of the whole world.

If you're a good tourist, the people you meet in their places are going to have a, have an impression of, um, where you come from too. You're going to leave a mark on them, they leave a mark on you. Hopefully if you go and you behave properly and you enjoy yourself and you interact with the locals, they're going to say, well, those people from where you come from, they're special too. Maybe I want to go there someday. I think it is just the interaction with people. It's not just the travel, it's the interaction with the people and the places that really inspire me.

Roger: I love that idea about the interactions and, and how people start to view each other that I totally get. And I've had some experiences of that just in the US Having I live in Texas, and to some people there, that's like, ooh, right.

I went to San Francisco, and in Texas, some people go, ooh. And I had. I recall a few years ago having dinner with a couple in downtown San Francisco, and they were like, Texas, ooh. I was like, San Francisco, ooh. As we told our children stories and everything, it was like, wow. It's pretty much the same. It reminds me of it. So, the stereotypical battle lines got deconstructed a bit from what we hear. So, I see that in what you're talking about.

Let's go to your values.

Nick: Okay.

Roger: Now on the worksheet, we don't have to go through each one of these in detail, but I just want to, you know, just survey them. It says it is too high, top 10 values highest to lowest. And I don't know if you did a hierarchy of these or not. I have them in front of me if you want me to share them with you.

Nick: Yep, I have, I have them too, Roger.

Roger: All right, number one was security. So, what does that mean?

Nick: Security means that I'm going to be okay. And in a lot of ways, that means financially. When I purchased my home in my community, one of the things that was important to me wasn't how much the bank told me I could have to buy a place. It was okay. My military retirement check is this much. If everything in the world fell apart and I didn't have a job, I would at least have my home. I would be able to pay for my home, and I could go flip burgers at the local fast food restaurant if I needed to feed myself.

Roger: Okay.

Nick: So, when I talk about security, that's what I mean for security. Understanding that I'm going to probably financially be important.

Roger: Okay.

Number two is relationships. You talked about this a lot with all the nieces and nephews. This is obviously a big value for you. Time, freedom. I think we have heard some of your comments related to volunteering and budget and travel.

Number three is the first time I've ever seen this one, which is patriotism.

Nick: Well, I, you know, I joined the army, the Army Reserve, out of high school because I believe that service to country is important. It wasn't at the, at the time, you know, I could have just got active army at the, you know, out of the gate, but at that point I was kind of thinking my trajectory was college and private, uh, sector, you know, a non-uniformed job I guess is what I would say a nonmilitary uniform job.

I ended up serving a total of 25 years in the, between the Army Reserve and the Army. When I was getting ready to retire, it wasn't that I didn't have options outside of the government, it was that I, I really believe that service to your country is important and service to your, the citizen of your country is important. I chose to continue my path as a civil servant in the federal government.

Roger: Okay.

Nick: Makes me, makes me a little crazy when I hear the national anthem and people don't stand up and people don't take their hats off and people. You know, I'm not sure that patriotism runs as deeply in America anymore as it used to, and I think that's unfortunate.

Roger: I see the way that you describe patriotism, it seems to rhyme with number six, which is your just community, you know, serving your country, serving your community, you know, and patriotism for you took the form of military, and for others it's serving the community. Right. There are different ways to serve your country.

Okay, now the fifth one is uh, uh, an odd word that we don't hear much as we used to. Altruism. So, define that for you.

Nick: Well, so for me, altruism comes down to doing things for others to make things better for others than maybe what they would have otherwise. Um, I, I currently work with a tutoring program that's mainly inner city public school students. For them sometimes just having a single adult who shows up on a weekly basis is the most amazing thing because they come from situations where they're constantly disappointed by the adults in their life. And it's related to, um, of course, all of the inner city problems that create that. I feel like I've been blessed with so much that I have a responsibility to try to help others either move upwards in society or find a better path than they're currently on. Um, I hope that made sense.

Roger: Made total sense.

Nick: I felt like I wandered kind of.

Roger: No, you didn't wander. You didn't wander at all.

That was perfect. It's like there's no right way. This is one thing I've learned over the years, Nick. In business and other things. Well, in military, that's our way. But in life.

Nick: Exactly.

Roger: Especially entrepreneurism and in retirement planning, there is only Nick's way. You're n of 1, as Bobby would say. You're your one iteration that is unique to you. So, there's no general right way. There's just Nick's way. What's right for Nick, that's all that matters.

Nick: Sounds good.

Roger: Thank you for telling us the story of Nick. Often, we don't get to tell that story. How did it feel?

Nick: Felt good. All right. It was interesting. It was interesting to share about myself that way.

Roger: The reason we go through this is the values that you have are the beginning of a thread. And your goals should be how you express your values in creating the life you want to create a life that is congruent with the values that you have that are important to you. Uh, so it's a good filtering mechanism for choices and for reflection of am I living what I say is important to me because it's so easy to get off track in this wild, wild world of ours. So that's the reason we start here. And I'm glad that you leaned into it because it's very easy just to want to get to the numbers.

Nick: Oh, no. Like I've told you, Roger, I've listened to the program from episode one. I didn't start until Covid, but I listened from episode one all the way through, and. And I. I appreciated your podcast because it doesn't just focus on the numbers. It focuses on all of life. You know, health, you know, what you do with your time, your money, what you do with your money. But, I mean, it's full circle. It's the 360 views of retirement, as opposed to just the number. The number. The number. Which is what I think we easily can get lost in.

Roger: Yeah, it's much more trackable. So next week, we're going to talk about goals. Sounds good?

Nick: Sounds good.

TODAY’S SMART SPRINT SEGMENT

Roger: On your marks, get set, and we're off to take a baby step you can take in the next seven days to not just rock retirement, but rock life.

All right, in the next seven days, very simple. Grab the values worksheet at rogerwhitney.com under free resources or in our 6-Shot Saturday email and go through the exercise and give your first shot or revise your current values to establish what your top 10 values are in life. If you are married, have your spouse do it separately and then change papers, read them and discuss them.

BONUS STORY

Now we are going to continue to read my grandfather's log from World War II was on the record.

“Mission number 11 and 12, July 16, 1944. Ship number 916. sortie 8 went to Vienna, Austria and as expected, encountered lots of flak and fighters. Target hit with fair result. Flak heavy, concentrated and accurate. Carried 20250 pound bombs. Mission was 6 hours 35 minutes. Altitude 21,300ft.”

Short and sweet today. Zig was.

He was probably tired. Happy New Year, folks. We'll chat next week.

The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. All performance references are historical and do not guarantee future results. All indices are unmanaged and cannot be invested in directly. Make sure you consult your legal, tax, or financial advisor before making any decisions.