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Episode #572 - Retiring Single with Tanya Nichols, CFP®
Roger: The show is a proud member of the retirement podcast network.
“Stay single until someone actually complements your life in a way that makes it better to not be single”
-Anonymous
Welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have the confidence because you're doing the work to really lean in and rock it. Having that confidence, which is key, knowing that you can do it, feeling empowered.
Welcome to 2025. It's the first football day hangover day, maybe for some of you, not me. Welcome to 2025 Hangover Day. I don't know why that's kid stuff. I'm excited about 2025. I'm excited about January. We're going to face challenges this month and this year, but we're still going to have a great year because we're going to be intentional about it.
This January, we're focusing on two individuals facing retirement single with no children. We're starting off the year in a way I like, and that is by talking with Tanya Nichols about retiring single. That's kicking off this month's series of our Retirement Plan Live. This is our live case study. We always do it in January. This January, we're focusing on not just one, but two individuals that are at or near retirement single with no children. So, they're facing a different type of retirement. We're not just looking at one person. We chose someone and we're like, wouldn't it be great to have a male and a female perspective of the and how they perceive things, what they're excited about, what they're worried about? I think that would be a great contrast, and maybe they're identical. We'll find out together this month. Here's how the month is going to work.
Today we're going to talk with Tanya Nichols from Align Financial about some of the aspects around retiring as a single person with no children. We get into real planner mode of all the things to consider. It's not a Debbie Downer because there's a lot of great things, but we're planners, so that's how that goes. But we're going to set that table next week. We're going to meet our two subjects and we're going to learn about what their values are and learn a little bit about how they got to where they are today. Just the background.
Then on the 15th, the third episode of the month, we're going to focus on what their goals are, what does their ideal lifestyle looks like in retirement. Then on the 22nd, my birthday, by the way, and Tracy Austin's, we're going to organize their Resources, what do they have to pay for this ideal retirement?
The last episode of the month on the 29th, we're going to talk about some of the aspects of aging as a single person. How does one navigate that? There won't be any clear answers, but you want to have a framework for how it might be dealt with. Then, as always, in early February, I guess we're going to have a result show where the subject, in this case two subjects will be live with us. We'll work through the vision and the feasible pillars of retirement planning to get a sense of where there are opportunities, of risks for them to continue that journey.
Now, I'm not sure if we're going to have one or two live meetups. Since we have two people, we might have to do two, so stay tuned for that. If you want to get access to some of the worksheets that I mention throughout the month, sign up for our 6-Shot Saturday email, which is a weekly email where it recaps the show and we send links to resources that we mention or that we create. You can do that rogerwhitney.com. we have some interesting things happening with that email, by the way.
All right, that's a lot. Let's get talking with Tanya.
PRACTICAL PLANNING SEGMENT
Roger: We're kicking off the new year with one of my favorite people, Tanya Nichols from Align Financial. Tanya, how are you?
Tanya: Good morning, Roger.
Roger: Next week we introduce two solo volunteers for the case study, a man and a woman. We're going to do concurrent stories, which we've never done before. So, I thought we'd kick this off because you have a lot of expertise in helping manage retirement in general, but with single people as well as women, which is part of your practice. I thought we'd kick it off and talking about some of the planning aspects of retirement planning for singles. So, as we're thinking about this, what’s the first thing that comes to mind about this special category of single people retiring?
Tanya: Well, I think the facts are the same, right? They still have to make decisions about Social Security and whether to roll over their pension or take it as a monthly option, how to invest their funds and when to retire. They still have a lot of those same problems or opportunities that they have to address, but I think it is different in the fact that you don't have a partner in the process. That might change the lens with which you're examining some of these different issues.
Roger: I think that's an important concept, that 90 plus percent of the journey is the same. You just have these different considerations. You're not going to have two social securities. You're going to be in a single tax bracket. It's just slightly different backset, but it rhymes pretty closely with anybody else that's planning.
Tanya: Right.
Roger: Question unrelated to singles, would you say for almost everyone that is the case? Even if you have a special needs child, you're still dealing with the same issues, but now you have this overlay of a separate issue that maybe others aren't dealing with, but the process should still be relatively similar.
Tanya: I think so, yeah. I mean it just takes a different. I think overlay is a great word for it. I also think it might be become a bigger focus if you have a special needs child or, you know, everybody just has different priorities. You know, if somebody's lifespan, they maybe have a chronic illness that's going to change the way that they think about retirement. Like that's going to affect all of their decisions.
Roger: That's another great overlay, right?
Tanya: Yes, yes.
Roger: Now, Tanya and I actually recorded this segment when I was in Colorado and I left the memory card in Colorado. So, it's like the lost tapes, when I die, then maybe I find them and publish them.
Tanya: But actually, secrets on those tapes.
Roger: But I think it actually was a good thing because when we first talked it felt like we were just saying, this is hard. These are all the things that you have to worry about. So, I think that actually it's healthy that we get to redo this because we got into deep planner mode for a while.
Tanya: Right.
Roger: So, assuming that we all understand the basics of building a retirement plan of record, let's start. There is. If you're single and you don't have children and you're facing retirement, what are some of the things that are overlying on top of the normal planning process in your mind?
Tanya: I think one of the items that stands out for me is instead of maybe providing, making sure your spouse is taken care of financially, if you're gone early, you end up wondering, let's assume that your plan is feasible and that you have enough funds to kind of do the things you want to do. I have a lot of, and women in particular, single women who are like, all right, so it's the end of my retirement, I have enough money, but now what happens if I need somebody to come help? Like, what happens if I can't take care of things? So, I think that it becomes a little bit different, or maybe it's addressed sooner than it would typically be dealt with in a married situation.
Then the other one that comes to mind is this idea of legacy for my singles without kids especially, you know, you really can think about that differently where for a lot of married couples and singles with kids, you just end up thinking, oh, well, my kids get all my wealth. We start to push into that conversation, I think, a little deeper to imagine how they want that to serve other people, or like, how do you want it to serve you more during your lifetime? If legacy isn't a priority, what could you do that was bigger and made a bigger impact on you or others during your lifetime? Because the idea of legacy maybe isn't as important in that case. Those are a couple things that stand out.
Roger: I'm definitely dealing with that in a number of relationships in our practice of, single, no children, in this case, well overfunded. How do I be a steward of this money because there isn't that natural legacy. I'm reading Gospel of Wealth by Andrew Carnegie right now that talks a little bit about that. There's a tension there, isn't there, Tanya, because the thing that you started with is early in retirement as a single person, you have to do it as a couple, but as a single person, you have to be more intentional or you feel more intentional about the contingency plans of, what if I need assistance, which is a tension between that and giving the money away or spending it early. So that tension might be a little bit more acute.
Tanya: Right. Especially when, let's say, you have a plan to work part time early in retirement and there's a health change or a change in the business that you were going to work for or work with that now you can't work part time anymore, and that was a part of your plan to make it feasible. So, if there are some, there aren't any other levers to pull in that instance, you're the one. I think you're right. There is a tension. You have got to make sure to provide for yourself, and that's on you to figure out, but then do you feel brave enough or confident enough that there is enough of a surplus to do some of those things during your lifetime?
Roger: I think another thing that is missing that's not built in if you're single is having a thinking partner. I'll use myself as an example. I have always had a professional coach of sorts, and I'm lucky to have awesome people like you. I can call you, Tanya. What do I do to give me perspective? I'm in the center of my hurricane or the eye of my hurricane, and I can't see about is it okay to do this? Usually, a spouse or a partner is going to help serve that to sort of calm you down or lift you up. I've noticed that as one difference that you have to figure out. How do you navigate that? Have you seen any successful ways of doing that?
Tanya: I agree with that completely. Where I've seen success is when people really intentionally create either groups or partnerships where they're kind of exchanging those ideas, talking about their worries or their hopes, and, you know, working together to kind of create a project. Of course, firms like ours, mine and yours, that's the work that we're doing with them serving as that thinking partner. But I've seen some really cool examples of that in the club with some of the members who've been around a long time. They've created these clubs. They even have created their own groups. They even have names for themselves. They just serve as their own board of directors or board of advisors or something like that. That can be really powerful. But what you have to do when you're creating that is be very intentional and be open to being vulnerable. Maybe not just about the numbers. In one of those groups, a spouse had died, and so they started talking about, hey, will you take care of these things if something happens to me? Will you help distribute my estate to my kids? They even started serving in some of those functions, which I think is really neat to see happen, which.
Roger: You do have to be vulnerable. And some of us are easier at one, making those friendships from scratch. I think the phrase is, it's very difficult to make a new old friend. Right?
Take you and I as an example, because we've been chatting. I mean, we met over a decade ago, but we've been chatting very regularly for six, seven years. We're old friends now, but we were new friends at the beginning, and it was a risk. We were feeling out that that relationship on what level people are at, right. So, it takes some vulnerability. Now you do this in your life because you are a single woman. You have a cohort of women, I believe, that you guys meet every quarter or something.
Tanya: Yes, we have a women's group. There's five of us we meet, actually try to meet twice a month. So, every other week, one is more focused and then one is more just like catching up, because we noticed that we like to catch up. So, we want to make sure we have opportunities for that. We're from all over the country where each of us is from a different decade, which I think is super valuable to make sure you're kind of surrounded with people older and younger than you. Although I am the youngest in the group. But that will change, right? We're going to have to recruit someone new, but I think it's super valuable.
When I was going to move from my cabin and sell my house in COVID like everybody else did and move to town because I lived way out in the woods, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't do this. This is crazy. Like, oh, my, what am I doing? I had just been divorced a year or two prior to that. I wasn't confident in my decision making at the time, even though I had all the facts and all the skills, brought all that to my group. I was like, what am I missing? They were like, you did it, Go do it. It was just that little extra push that I needed to be like, okay, I did my work on this, I did my research, My priorities are clear and I'm moving forward. I think they can be really valuable. And it doesn't always have to be about money either. It can be about anything
Roger: All that catching up part that seems unproductive but it is actually what builds the relational currency to trust people. I don't let people speak into my life if we haven't built that up, that they want the best for me and they're not idiots and all sorts of things. How did you find that group or build that group?
Tanya: We were all a part of a coaching group for financial advisors that was sort of unique in that it was talking about not just like, how to build a great business and serve clients well, but also how to have the life that you want to have.
So, we were all kind of attracted to that kind of a program. You have to be intentional about it, I guess that is the point. Then we just kept hanging out. There were 60 of us originally, and now there's five of us in that one group that still meets a couple times a month.
Roger: If you take off the business coaching aspect of it, that's how you met. But that could be a book club, a bible study, it could be a pickleball league. Someone teeing up, hey, let's hop on a zoom or let's go have coffee. You have to be intentional about it, I guess that is the point.
Tanya: You do, and you know Mark Troutman, who I believe has been on the show a couple of times?
Roger: Many times, yes.
Tanya: He and I did a session in the Rock Retirement Club about how to build your board of directors. One of the ideas we had suggested was maybe, maybe it's just two or three of you. Like, it doesn't have to be a lot but set it for a fixed time frame. Let's do this on the first Tuesday of every month for 90 days or 180 days or whatever you feel comfortable with, because it also gives you permission to stop it if it's not a good fit without necessarily damaging the relationships.
Roger: That's an excellent idea too. That's an excellent idea. Mark is a great example. So, he is single, he's a widower. He recently moved to an area where he had a community around the FI Community. Mark's Money Mind podcast is awesome. Mark is one of my favorite people, just below Tanya. But he intentionally moved to an area where a lot of these people lived and they have like a Slack channel or something where, hey, can you drive me to the airport? Can you check on my dog? I got the flu. Can somebody bring me food? So that social network, they had to just create intentionally.
So, looking forward, actually, before we move forward, I think one reason we're talking about this so intentionally is this is a force multiplier for anybody, whether you're married or single, but especially if you're single. Having your group and the club provides a way of finding your homies. But there are plenty of other things that you do that you do.
When we think about the future, usually we think about aging as a single. We are thinking about long term care and where I will get the care I need. But one thing I don't think we think about as much is, it is, a little bit more unique to a single person who's going to help me fix the house, pay the bills, deal with the insurance company. A lot of logistical stuff outside of just simply, I have this extra expense because I'm dealing with a long term care issue. Have you had experience navigating that? What's the protocol that you've developed so far? Because I think this is evolving.
Tanya: I think it is a reality that if you have a household and you're managing it and you're alone, there's the same amount of work as there is in a household that's being managed by two people. I think the reality is your costs to manage that household may be more. But the men and women that I see do this well, they just start to imagine like think about the things that take you kind of below the line that are driving you crazy that you just stress out about. If you can find people to help you with this, the amount of support that they feel by just little things like it could be a house cleaner or something just simple and basic like that. But it could be like paying the guy.
I know a neighbor woman of mine that just got divorced and she loves Christmas lights and so she paid somebody to put Christmas lights up because it made her so happy. For a lot of the folks that listen to your show, I know, you know, there's a lot of frugal folks out there and that might be a mindset shift that has to take place. But those are just little ways I think in which you can trade money and in return receive support in areas of your life that might just really drag you below the line, so to speak.
Did I miss your question?
Roger: No, it totally answered the question. Yeah. I think this is actually building a social network of sorts of, but just in the, in the more practical way of having. You know, I'm thinking of someone that's 60 today but they're thinking about their 70 or 80 year old self. Right. Being single with no children, this is the time to create relationships with a handy person. With a CPA or even if it's a local H&R block, that's one area where we're doing taxes. Maybe you do your own taxes right now, but what are you going to do when you're 75? That actually is an area where it gets really difficult and a CPA generally doesn’t want to deal with that.
Even if it's an H&R block, start to make relationships at the office because they'll rotate so you have some consistency. Who's going to help navigate health care? Who's going to change your light bulb? Who can you trust? There's a lot of people that you can't trust from a craftsman standpoint, because everybody's an individual contractor, now's the time to start building that infrastructure.
I have a question for you, Tanya. As you're single and retiring, ultimately does this lean towards you closely considering a safety first approach at some point in your retirement? I am speaking in terms of taking money that you have and turning on guaranteed income for later years.
Tanya: Well, it's interesting that you ask that, and this could be my bias, but with the clients that I'm working with, we actually prefer flexibility. Oftentimes a safety first requires some permanent decision making early on. While I don't disagree that that can be a really great option for some if I'm working with someone through the transition of retirement in those first few years, usually we're focusing on creating the most flexible plan possible, which often means just making the least amount of permanent decisions possible, I guess.
Roger: Yeah, I totally agree.
Tanya: That's my take.
Roger: I totally agree with that. Jim Solnier and their process, they talk a lot about safety first, but even in their process, they'll just have a contingency plan for a later decision to purchase safety first or we're talking about guaranteed income annuity or something else.
I think I agree with you. We're agile. Right? My favorite word. I'm thinking about having some roadmap that when you're 70 or 75 that you start to pivot a little bit in order to one just make it all easier to protect you from fraud because you're not going to rob all the money, just the paycheck. As you're aging by yourself, you're not aware of cognitive issues. I mean, we're not even talking Alzheimer's, just decision making and speed of understanding. But I agree with you. Especially early on, the flexibility is important.
Tanya: I think it is an issue that is going to be. There are so many people in this category that are moving into those decades. There has to be a solution to this somehow. Whether it's community groups and building these networks we're talking about or services being offered, I think in bigger metro areas, it's more probable to be able to find some of those services. I know in my small town in northern Minnesota, they just don't really exist unless you're someone without any resources and then you have some options available. But it is really hard to create some of these things. However, I think the demand for it is there. I think this just, you just had Christine Benz on, and you guys were talking about it as she was dealing with her mom that was aging. I think the demand for this is going to be so high that there will be a solution at some point or better or more solutions available.
Roger: If you're married and listening to this thinking, oh, this doesn't apply to me. I'm so lucky. I have a family. You know what, there's going to be a point in your life that one of you will be single. God willing, not for a long time, but there will be one point when one of you is single and it may be later in life when you're not as energetic and bluntly sharp to navigate it easily.
In our household, my mother in law who lost her husband a year and a half ago and she is having to navigate a whole new world in her 80s which is hard. We're going to begin next week in introducing our two subjects, a man and a female. So, we're going to have two different perspectives, but I think this was a good primer so we can understand the overlay of being single with no children. Some of the issues, not a lot of solutions. I think there aren't a lot of solutions other than having a good process for being logical about it.
Any last words from you, Tanya?
Tanya: No, sir. Thank you for having me today, sir.
Roger: See, that's what young people say to people like me. All right, I'll talk to you soon.
LISTENER QUESTIONS
As always, let's get to some of your questions so we can help you take a baby step towards rocking retirement. We're not going to have a lot of room for questions this month with two different subjects so I want to make sure we get some in.
LAUREN HAS A QUESTION ABOUT A NEW MORTGAGE PRODUCT
Our first question comes from Lauren related to a new type of mortgage product.
Lauren says,
“Hello. I am considering an all in one loan to get my house paid off sooner so I can rock retirement sooner. Maybe you've done an episode on this type of loan. If not, I would really love to hear your thoughts.”
She shared a website, lifechangerloan.com, definitely not recommending it. I don't know enough about it.
We looked at this, Lauren. It describes a home loan that merges your mortgage with your personal banking, your checking and savings account. It looks like in their product the mortgage is also your checking account. So, any deposits automatically lower your home principal balance and withdrawals. It's a dynamic thing that uses the equity in your home as a checking account of sorts.
So, if you have savings, let's say you have $50,000 in savings in your banking account, that actually reduces the principle of your loan which in turn will, you know, potentially save you interest. I've never encountered a loan mortgage like this, Lauren and to be honest with you, any new product like this that is sold rather than bought, I'm extremely wary of. Typically, I want to let these things be out in the market and used and have some track record before I engage in a product like this. Especially with your home mortgage and your banking.
Personally, Lauren, this might be the next best thing. I don't know. But I would say the KISS principle here is to keep it simple. If you have a mortgage and you're trying to pay it off, you can throw extra money towards that mortgage and reduce the principal. If you have enough equity, you can have a home equity line of credit that if you need to get money out, you can do that. I would keep this simple Lauren, and take a wait and see approach on this and not overcomplicate it. When you have newer products like this where there's not. They haven't really been in the market long enough to be examined and poked around and see how they work out. There are a lot of unknown unknowns and that's where the gotchas are, the unintended consequences that we just can't identify because there's not enough experience in the market for your banking and your mortgage. I would likely not do this because there are too many unknowns. We don’t even know what we don’t know.
JIM ASKS ABOUT HOW TO TRACK DOWN HIS OLD 401Ks
Our next question comes from Jim asking about tracking down old 401ks.
“Hey Roger and team.
Wondering if any of you have any experience tracking old 401ks. My wife recently found out about one from a company she worked for in the 90s. She got a letter from the Social Security office telling her the plan may still exist and listed the name of the administrator. But that information has led us nowhere so far.
The original company has new owners and they did not keep the 401k plan in question. And the listed administrator seems to be a dead end. A Google search sent us to a firm in Indiana and that was a dead end. Do old 401ks eventually get dissolved?”
In these situations, I can totally see how frustrating this is. When a company gets bought or sold or goes bankrupt, the money doesn't disappear. Your wife's 401k should still be safe, Jim, but it's in limbo. It likely got absorbed by another 401k that didn't have good contact information for her. They don't know how to reach you. You don't know how to reach it. It just sort of hangs out there, just like lost money at the government, but there should be some administrator of a plan. The IRS keeps the Social Security Administration aware of private employer Benefits known as deferred vested benefits, like 401k plans. Then when people file Social Security claims, Social Security Administration sends a letter about those benefits. It helps people like your family, in this case your wife, Jim, find out about those benefits.
So, a couple suggestions, you can go to the Department of Labor website to find the most recent annual report filed by your wife's plan. It's called the Form 5500, and it may be one that is an old plan. You might have to look back in time for the last 5500, which is essentially the regulatory report of the 401k plan. We will have a link to the website to at least search for this and hopefully it won't be a dead end for you. You can use the webpage or call the Department of Labor and talk to the benefits advisor. They may be able to help you track this down.
I have not gone on this journey, Jim. So, if anybody out there listening has dealt with this and you have a suggestion, feel free to send us a message at rogerwhitney.com or reply to 6-Shot Saturday and perhaps we can help Jim and his wife on this treasure hunt.
GREG HAS A QUESTION ABOUT BEING THE TAX PREPARER FOR HIS FAMILY AS WELL AS HIS AGING MOTHER
Our next question comes from Greg, who's learning from family experience.
Greg says,
“Hey, Roger and team.
I'm the family member that does the taxes for my mother, my sister, my brother, my daughter, and ourselves. As I see my mother's health and memory fail, I am wondering what the best ways are to transition from me being the preparer to someone else being the preparer.
I would not like to burden our daughter. I suspect that you have tackled this in the past, so please direct me to the podcast and I will try to absorb the guidance.”
Actually, Greg, we have not addressed this in the past.
So, if you are the tax preparer for your mother and your family members, that's a burden, right? That's a project. It's multiple projects. If you're doing it for multiple people, factor in your mother, who is getting older, who likely will need somebody to help her with her taxes over time. I would suggest everybody but your mother, to find a CPA or teach them how to use the tax software that you're most comfortable with. It's an important skill, and unless they have complicated taxes, it's relatively straightforward, even though it may be intimidating for them. Everything is intimidating until you do it. So, some of this might be resistance because, oh, numbers. We've seen this in the club all the time in learning the software and people building Their own plan. It's a little intimidating just because it's new and it's getting the reps in. You may have to help them get over that barrier. Once they start to get some reps in, they can use you as customer support. Most of the popular finance or tax planning software have support that they can sign up for. So, I think it's worth them learning how to do it. It's actually a lot easier assuming you don't have a complicated tax situation.
Now let's talk about your mother. This is an issue because even if she, you know, she's lucky to have you. But I have had many instances with elderly people who have had a CPA that CPA retires and some young people take it over and essentially abandon them, so that is not a good situation. I can think of one in particular where we don't even know if her taxes were filed for a couple of years yet because we can't get any communication from this particular CPA firm, which is annoying.
I would suggest for her that you help her use an H&R block or in person tax service and start to build a relationship, if not with a person, but an office, her taxes are going to be probably pretty simple, right? If they're pretty simple, you could do them. No need to try to get her to do them but have a local office that she can go to and that you or your brother or your daughter instead can go to if there's a problem will create some relationship. Then I would put it to you or someone in your family to be the prompter of that. That is probably a better way of doing it than going to a CPA firm. There's a lack of supply of CPAs and tax preparers. The ones that are accepting clients typically are not that responsive. We're working on building a list of CPA firms for our clients because it's really difficult. Erin on our team, who's an EA enrolled agent, can represent and do taxes. She may have some comments on this related to it. You don't need a CPA, you need an enrolled agent. If she gives me any advice, I will make sure to share that feedback. If anybody else has walked this journey a little bit more than we have, obviously you can let us know and we'll try to share that with Greg.
All right, with that, let's set a smart sprint.
TODAY’S SMART SPRINT SEGMENT
On your marks, get set, now it's time to set a smart sprint, a little baby step you can take in the next seven days to not just rock retirement, but rock life.
All right, in the next seven days, I want you to establish a file, digital or physical, for yearend statements from all of your accounts. Mortgage statements, 401k, 403b, brokerage account, anything you got for your yearend statements and any tax information you get from those providers. Set it up so you have it when you start to receive some of this stuff. If you don't, what will generally happen, or I've seen happen personally, is you just start putting it in piles and it's not organized. This will be something that you'll be thankful that you did a month or so from now when you start to prepare all your documents.
BONUS STORY
Now it's time for our latest installment of the missions flown by Zigmund Chanceller in a B-17 in World War II. We're on mission number 10 now.
“July 14th. Ship number 437, sortie seven was the only one of the crew that flew today. Target was an oil refinery in Budapest, Hungary. Target was hit with fair results. Enemy aircraft encountered, but we came through. We had P-51 and P-38 escorts. Flak was heavy and very accurate. Carried 12500 pound bombs. Mission seven and a half hours at 23,000ft.”
You notice that he said he was the only one of the crew to fly today. I don't know from the whole population of B17 crews, but I do know that my grandfather volunteered a lot and you'll see that at the end when you look at how quickly he was able to complete all those missions. So that was mission number 10. Wishing you a Happy New Year.
The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. All performance references are historical and do not guarantee future results. All indices are unmanaged and cannot be invested in directly. Make sure you consult your legal, tax or financial advisor before making any decisions.